Duly noted Mike and put on shopping list.

The other point is that you only need wear waterproof/breathable socks in wet weather or on wet ground so they don't get as much wear as a lining you can't remove.

Dave, what else were you wearing on your legs ? Gaiters / overtrousers ? I know you appear to think that your boots are faulty, but in all honesty, I think that 2 hours' waterproof in bad conditions isn't bad. Also, I'm not trying to belittle you or your choice in boots in any way, but your "expensive" Meindl's aren't really - as Meindl boots go they are pretty much bottom to mid range boots and more akin to high-top approach shoes than boots .

Chris - nobody is really talking about holed membranes here are they ? The fact is that when a jacket or boot lining wets out it will leak and/or vapour will fail to pass through it resulting in wetness inside. The DWR can be replenished on a jacket but NOT (in my opinion) in a boot liner - simply because the liquid CANNOT reach the lining . any waterproof treatment applied to a fabric boot simply gives the outer a certain water-repellency.

My original gripe is with people who say that a goretex boot WILL let in water, but an identical boot without a goretex lining will stay super dooper dry if you nikwax it properly. IT WILL, but then so will the one with the goretex lining..

I was pomdering (pomdering ?? - pondering) that line of reasoning myself Rogue. I'd passed that by as a source of wet feet based on the fact that the top of my socks were dry - but on reflection the wet would have got in a bit lower anyway. I was wearing gore-tex gaiters with waterproof overtrousers over those. Do you think that's the source of the wet ?

Being fair on the boots they did keep my dry through about four hours of snow and puddles - so I'm not too annoyed with them. They make a good path and track boot all year being reasonably stiff in the shank and without too uch lateral flex. I find them a bit soft on the top at the sides (of course, being fabric) for the exercises in forestry brash and on particularly rocky ground and the grip isn't great, the treads being shallow. They are very comfortable on your soles though.

When I referred to them as higher end boots I just meant not cheapies that you expect to be poorer. I must say I got them for £85, last seasons model, end of line, last in shop ! So they're still good value. I won't be chucking them over any power lines yet !

Going back over the day in my mind I know remember snow balling on the gaiter straps (the Retreiver in snow look) and I'd guess snow had lodged in under the bottom of the gaiters and slowly melted. Certainly explain the lack of wet feet from the puddles etc earlier.
Note to self - tap snow out of gaiters at regular intervals - or stay in bar till snow melts.

"The fact is that when a jacket or boot lining wets out it will leak and/or vapour will fail to pass through it resulting in wetness inside."

This is only partly correct. When wetting out occurs vapour transmission is reduced but the garment or boot doesn't leak. Wetness inside is caused by condensation not leakage.

"The DWR can be replenished on a jacket but NOT (in my opinion) in a boot liner - simply because the liquid CANNOT reach the lining . any waterproof treatment applied to a fabric boot simply gives the outer a certain water-repellency."

No, DWR treatment does not reach the membrane in a jacket, it coats the outside and inside to make them water repellent. The membrane is hidden between these layers. Maintaining the water repellency on boots is for exactly the same reason as on jackets - to prevent wetting out.

"My original gripe is with people who say that a goretex boot WILL let in water, but an identical boot without a goretex lining will stay super dooper dry if you nikwax it properly. IT WILL, but then so will the one with the goretex lining."

Agreed, with a leather boot (fabric boots without waterproof membranes cannot be made fully waterproof for any significant period of time). Until the Nikwax or similar wears off, at which point the Gore-tex boot will still be waterproof if the membrane is intact but the boot without a waterproof/breathable membrane will leak.

Anyone got a link to places selling Rockys? I've hit and miss experience with goretex linings or seal skinz but I've not tried the oversocks.

Cheers
Matt

Ok after searching around apparently the Rockys are no longer available over here so the next question is Trekmate Amphibians or a new set of Seal Skinz, apparently the new seal skinz are better than the old ones?

Lithril: That's a pity about the Rockys - Mike makes them sound very like my old Berghaus's which were close fitting and lasted years.

I'm not aware of the differences between old and new Sealskinz, but my experience was so bad I'll be waiting for comments from experienced users / testers. So I'd recommend the Amphibians - a loose fit, but still comfortable and waterproof after about a year or so.



Dave - I've had no problem with the leater Hi Tech V Lites, except that they began to leak after 200 miles or so.

The Rockys have a stretch cuff, and a stretch panel down the shin and top of the foot. They also come in two leg lengths. When i heard the rumours last year about them being discontinued, i bought an extra pair for the future. There are no problems with my present pair, and as they were used by the US Marine Corp, i expect them to be very durable.

There are still some kicking about in the UK if you have a non average foot size. Some folk i know are still importing them from the US. It isn't clear to me wether they have stopped being made, or just that there is no supplier in the UK now.

Each of my Keen Targhee Mid 2 boots lasted six months and failed by letting water in. (TGO Best Buy ????)

I have also had a pair of Meindl Utah boots that also leaked after 5 days use. (TGO Recommended Buy???)

With no boots and wanting to do complete the TMB in late June I am at a loss of what boots to get that will keep my feet reasonably dry after. There is no point going for lightweight boots if they leak as soon as it rains!

Anyone got any ideas, please please ?