Herald Scotland

I was out on a rescue exercise on Sunday - in the snow on the moors - now my berghaus waterproof coat wasn't - waterproof that is - but I'll apply some re-proofing and hope that sorts it out. However my Meindl Utah boots also let wet through - although not for several hours and then only when I was waiting around at the end of the exercise. Given that these boots are Gore-tex lined and were treated with the recommended nixwax proofing liquid the night before, has anyone any ideas why they let the damp through (socks were wet not just damp from sweat either) - and what I can do to stop it happening again. (Short of buying new boots - the ones I've got are just under a year old). I would have thought that Gore-tex linings and re-proofing would have been enough.

Cheers

I've never had a pair of Goretex lined boots, partly because I doubt the goretex would remain viable for the life of the boot. Maybe the membrane is compromised now?? sounds like belt n' braces (or rather braces and braces) - have you considered goretex oversocks?

The 'waterproof' membrane has failed on every pair of boots i've had apart from my winter B2 boots. All it takes is a bit of grit inside the boot, or repeated flexing in one area to damage the membrane in my opinion. The lack of flex in my B2 boots, and their high cuff has probably helped with their longevity. If had to buy a pair of boots again (i won't), i would go for good one piece leather uppers, rather than rely on a membrane.
I hardly wear boots these days, but if i want waterproofing, i rely on my Rocky Goretex socks.

There is a similar thread running on another website about G'Tex boots leaking. If they're problematic, and anecdotal evidence seems to suggest that they are, why not use non G'Tex boots with G'Tex socks? In addition, you get a nice airy summer boot and a boot for more inclement conditions.

While I'm not denying that some people have had non-waterproof Goretex lined boots, I wonder why it is that people who say "I've never had goretex boots that didn't leak" also seem to have had fully waterproof unlined leather boots.

How can it be that a company can make waterproof (after nikwax or whatever) boots , but the same boots (also with nikwax treatment) inevitably leak when fitted with goretex liners? Is the bootmaking skill lessened by the addition of the lining?

Or can it be that the user assumes that there is not the same need to care for the boots in the same way, since they are goretex lined ?


Also, the original poster states that his berghaus coat is no longer waterproof and hopes that reproofing will sort that out, but the goretex linings in his shoes leaked after several hours and can't understand why ? Do the conditions which lead an outer jacket to leak not apply to the same fabric in a shoe ? Waterproofing treatments for a shoe will only ever sink a certain amount into a shoes's outer layers and may never reach the goretex lining, but they are applied directly to the outer on a jacket.


Rod

My 'waterproof' jacket does not have a Gore-tex lining - it apparently has it's own Berghaus version which may or may not be as good - nor has it received quite the same care, I admit, as my boots have. The jacket gets rolled up and stuffed in and out of my rucksack regularly and whilst of course the boots get plenty of wear they aren't crumpled up in the same way, (which would have led to a lot of stress on the liner). The boots are Meindls and I would have expected a greater degree of waterproofing from a reasonably top quality boot maker as opposed to a somewhat more 'bargain' value coat.
My boots on the other hand had just been heavily proofed the night before in accordance with the instructions from nikwax - applied to a damp surface. Neither have I had my boots leak before. I guess it is down to the fact that the snow was sat on my boots for a long time (the same for the snow blasted onto the coat) - whereas on most occasions the water they've encountered has been just that, water, washing over the boots but not staying on them.

Gore-tex socks might be an option - but then if the gore-tex liner in the boots failed would the socks be any better ? (Cheaper of course!). I'll be looking at a pair of Baffins for next winter I think.

On a positive note the £7.50 thermal sock liners I bought kept my feet lovely and warm even when damp ! The £16.50 top and bottom set of Dare2Be thermals were toasty too (although hauling the trousers up every half hour was a nuisance - though I suspect that might be more down to my shape then any fault in the gear - note to self - eat less exercise more!

Think about how many times your boot flexes in a walk. I think this will be far greater than stuffing your jacket into the pack once or twice a walk. I had a pair of berghaus GTX OVERsocks which lasted for many walks over at least 5 years. They creased when they went into the boot, but then remain in that position. Maybe this is less arduous that flexing with each step. I only recommend the OVERsocks though - Sealskinz are a waist of money in my (and many others) experience.

If you want dry feet there's only 2 ways to go in my experience:

1: Any boots or shoes in combination with Gtx OVERsocks
2: Hi-Techs all leather boot with the Ion Mask treatment. My V Light Ultras lasted for 200 miles but now let water in through the seam though. Now if they'd only make a seamless version I'd buy a lifetime's supply :)

(Actually I just remembered a 3rd - wellies!!)

Rod, "I wonder why it is that people who say "I've never had goretex boots that didn't leak" also seem to have had fully waterproof unlined leather boots". Some may have done but I haven't. Leather boots can be made very water resistant but I've never had a pair that was fully waterproof. Gore-tex and other membranes do make boots waterproof until they fail - then the boots are slower drying than ones without Gore-Tex.

"Do the conditions which lead an outer jacket to leak not apply to the same fabric in a shoe ?"

Yes. Any hole or tear in the Gore-tex or other membrane will cause it to leak. This is much more likely to happen with a boot than a jacket.

"Waterproofing treatments for a shoe will only ever sink a certain amount into a shoes's outer layers and may never reach the goretex lining, but they are applied directly to the outer on a jacket". Neither reach the Gore-Tex. Once it leaks there's little you can do about it in a boot. In a garment you can stick a patch over the leaking area unless it's too large. Waterproofing treatments for jackets replace the Durable Waterproof Repellency on the outside which causes rain to bead up and run off. They don't and can't repair the Gore-Tex.

Thanks for the comments - I'll consider the gore-tex oversocks although I'm still unclear as to why these would last longer than a liner fixed in a boot which surely doesn't move any more than the socks but maybe I'm missing something, not having had experience of them.

I must say my boots are only a year old and haven't had particularly heavy usage, probably less than other boots have had in other years that lasted longer. I'm a bit surprised that expensive Meindls haven't done better.

I'd like to know, Ian, what the lace fittings are like on your Hi-Tecs. I bought a pair of v-lite boots (fabric type) last year and not only was the tongue decidedly not waterproof but the eyes were very poorly rivetted and pulled out after a few weeks, which was a shame as the boots were pretty comfortable, I'd say as good as the Meindls. If I thought the Hi-Tec build quality in the leather boots was up to it I'd be tempted to get them again.

My theory on why Goretex socks work better is more to do with the close fitting nature of them. I think that grit in your boots probably wears away at the Goretex lining. I can only speak for the Rocky Goretex socks that i use, but they are stretchy and close fitting, so grit can't get inside.