Herald Scotland

Hello All

I'm new on here, but post infrequently on a number of other outdoor forums. I've applied to do the '09 Challenge and I would like to know other people's experiences of the types of shelter they use. I’m very much into my tarps. If I was accepted on the challenge this would be my first crossing, so I would plan a low level route with as much socializing as possible. I would do a few tops but plan to camp low down.

My options at the moment are

1. Tarp (backpackinglight.co.uk) Solo Tarp and Rab SZ Bivi (preferred option as it’s one I use 90% of the time.

2. Tarp (backpackinglight.co.uk) Solo Tarp and Mountain Laurel ground sheet bug mesh thing (bug bivi) to keep the bugs out, maybe SZ Bivi as well

3. Golite Hex3 or whatever they are called now, with or without the bug bivi.

Specifically I would like people’s experiences on

1. Midges and other bugs. I understand from Bob’s podcasts that 2007 was a bit midgey, I’m guessing 2008 may have been as well. Without bug protection will my nights be living hell?

2. How do tarps stand up to low level camping in Scotland at the time of year, I’m guessing perfectly OK?

3. Is worth taking the extra weight and increased pack size of the Hex 3 (outer and extension pole only) for 4 season all round protection or is this overkill?

I’m most grateful for any responses.

Cheers

John.

Hi Shed Dweller.
I use a few of the things you mention. I had planned to do a 2 week tarp trek in the Highlands this year, but injury stopped that.
All the options you mentioned work, but a small torso tarp and bivvy bag might be very uncomfortable over 2 weeks. You might get 2 weeks of rain! I often use a small tarp and bivvy-bag, but only for a week-end. I can only handle getting wet for a couple of days. If you choose to go down this route, plan to have a few bothies along your route for gear drying opportunities. :D
If you want to use a tarp, i would go for more coverage. I use the MLD Bug-bivvy with a 10 x 10 tarp. A light-weight bivvy-bag would be good emergency gear on a 2 week trek, in case you get caught out.
I have used the MLD Bug-bivvy with my Hex 3 outer, and this combo works well too. It gives you loads of room for cooking and sorting/drying gear.
The main thing to be aware of is site-selection. It is reasonably easy to protect against rain. Saturated ground, and rain run-off is the major problem. It is often better to pitch a little higher, avoiding lower swampy ground, and you must look out for possible water-courses, and avoid these. Be aware that an already wet hillside can turn into a river very quickly. :D
Midgies shouldn't be a major problem at that time of year. The MLD Bug-bivvy would take care of any midgies that were about. A head-net is a must, in any case. :D
Remember two words if tarping, GROUND WATER. :D
Have fun.

Hi John,

Glad you like the BPL gear and you might be interested to know that the design for them came from doing the TGOC a few years back. At the time I did it with a home made version of some 10 x 8 in size, but found it was too much material for my needs, hence the question about weight.

I did it with the SZ at the same time and found the combination worked well. The midge issues I reported on in the podcasts you mention were only minor and came as a bit of daytime surprise, probably due to the mild spring at the time. They were about at the time we stopped for a brew, but we didn't see any during camp, thankfully.

The only thing slightly against the tarp issue is privacy if you are on a campsite not used to such simplistic approaches. Although having said that, the US guy we met was using a spinnaker tarp in A Frame on the campsite in Stonehaven and Montrose, without any security or privacy issues.

The new DD Hammock / Tarp nest might be of interest to you, if bugs are about. Certainly the Golite Shangri-La 3 (New Hex 3) works well as a single skin shelter, giving fantastic protection, space and privacy for the weight.

Rose and I have applied for the next event, and are currently juggling with options as there is two of us. If I was doing it on my own I would probably use the Solo Tarp / SZ combination, or even the Mirco Tarp. However as it is such a great social event, the SL3 or Black Diamond Megalight, make for the long comfortable conversations on wet nights.

Thanks for the feed back chaps. I'm now also considering a Henry Shires Contrail. I like the fact it's still nearly a Tarp, it can also be closed up tent like and it has a build in ground sheet and bug netting. It looks like a pretty flexible bit of kit. It's rated 3 season but a low profile set up like any tarp is pretty strong, I think it may be a good option.

It also means I get to buy new kit - bonus!

The old Hex3 is pretty hard to beat though, loads of space, no worries about it blowing away in the night and not too heavy either.

Looking at the other threads though it seems as if there's a big entry for next year so this may all be academic. Fingers crossed for a good result!

Bob's tarps are good: I use a Micro Tarp with a bivvy bag and it's fine. However, you'd need to be pretty dedicated to go 2 weeks in Scotland with a tarp IMHO! With a single skin tent you will have condensation issues; I'd be inclined to look at a Henry Shires Rainbow rather than a Contrail (steeper sides, more room).

My honest opinion is that a double skin tent is the most practical, especially given the vagaries of the weather. Remember that with a bivvy/tarp or single skin tent you'll likely need a warmer sleeping bag, so lose some of the weight advantage.

Regarding midges: I used to go to Scotland in May but shifted back to April because May was starting to get midgy, so I'd definitely plan an effective anti-midge strategy!

Mike is spot on about ground water. I tend to use a Mountain Laurel duo tarp. Tons of space and you don't need to worry about rain in the worst of conditions. When the ground is waterlogged you do find little spring emerging underneath your gear! I tend to use a Soul Bivy which has a good bug net around the hood, but the bug bivy thing looks good (and has a bathtub floor).

I'm not sure about using this on the Challenge though. I tend to walk long days and quite like the idea of putting up the tent and collapsing inside. It can take a while to find the right pitch for a tarp and to get it up. I have to remember to stop earlier and find time to make camp.

On the Challenge I'd be tempted to sacrifice a little extra weight and go with the Hex, using one of Bob's half groundsheet things.

You will still need some bug protection. Event when there are only a few early midges about they can still cause distress!

Finally, material is something to think about. Last year Colin Ibbotson used a cuben fibre tarp and he was unsure whether it would have lasted in really bad weather. This may have been down to the design of the tarp rather than the material. Next year he's going to be using a Mountain Laurel tarp but one in sinylon!

i used a tarp but the longest for was for 5 nights max. i love it.
i use sleepin bag and bivi and a very iny inflatable matress from blacks that cost pennies and is one of the sallest bits of kit i've got.
midge's are a proble they love my scent!!! so i've got a net to use to keep them at bay.

as for privacy issues i' only sleeping so i' not concearned with people watching me and i don't use capsites i always wildcamp because there's no way i'll ever sleep outside without a fire to watch and boost my morale after a long day on the hills.

MacKenzie,

Lots of ticks & midges (some places absolutely crawl) so you should suffer nicely if thats what you are into?

I take a TN competition at 960g & have NO problems what so ever!

if you are taking a bug net & a tarp & a bivvy bag is that any lighter than above?
cos the comp. is ALL of these things & No drafts or wetness through horizontal rain

Yep it would be lighter if you got the right kit.

A Mountain Laurel bivy — with insect protection — and one of their light shelters would be still half the weight of a Competition. You pay's your money I guess.

I must say I've only had ticks infest me when I've been in a tent !!!

In Britain, for me, tarp camping is glorified bivvying. I slept once near the summit of Snowdon and was battered by wind all night long so not in the best condition for the 3000 footers next day. A tarp would have stopped that by providing a wind break, and it also means I can open my bivvy up whenever I please. I like the Cave 1 and pitch it low at the back and as high as possible at the front. This gives excellent shelter for my puny little Triad stove and easy access along with great views.

I guess I've been lucky with ground water. My Bozeman bivvy bag is a stupid price so, even though it isn't necessary, I put a poly cryo sheet under the bivvy bag. Foam pad between them to stop sliding. This combination has kept my down bag bone dry so far. I'll probably get my comeuppance soon.

Basically, if I wouldn't bivvy, I don't take a tarp. If I ever get to kip in a desert, I'll use my Cave the Jardine way, with just a space blanket under the sleeping bag.

By the way, real caves aren't all that Mr Crane claims.