Please indulge me on this one, I need to vent some frustration.

When in god's name did it become socially acceptable to litter. It's a damming comment on today's society that people think it's okay to drop litter. Do people think it's okay because somebody else will clear it up. Are children born with this, "somebody else will deal with it" attribute or do they learn from their peers or guardians. Is it a symptom of the nanny state? I see fast food bags dumped in lay-byes (sp?) I think to myself - who, does the person who dumped it there, think is going to pick it up! I assume they can drive, therefore I assume they are old enough to vote. How can they possibly be trusted with the power of a vote if they can't be trusted to put a KFC box in a bin!

I was walking with the family today to an old favorite small woods. A felled tree attracted the boys so we made a B-line to the tree to set up the stove for a brew. On getting there the area was littered with empty bottles, broken glass, burnt out cans, plastic bags and for some reason beyond my ken two deodorant cans. Here's the thing, I don't really mind teenagers building a fire in the woods and having a sly few cans of beer. I'd prefer they didn't, but I can tolerate it. I can't tolerate the mentality that makes them carry all the bottles into the woods and then think it's okay to just throw them away. Who do they think is going to clean up the mess? If they could carry them in, why can't they carry them out.

My three year old in the same woods today, without prompting, made sure that the wrapper from his oatcakes (oh that sounds a bit ...) was placed in his pocket, not dropped on the ground. Do they forget all this at the first sign of puberty or is it behavior learnt from their parents.

This ends my rant. Thank you for your indulgence (assuming you actually read this far.)

Mark

First post - way hay

I don't understand the mentality either Mark, it's quite disgusting.

I was out for a wander this morning & followed a lady & (what I presume) her daughter walking 2 dogs accross the fields. The small girl was chewing on some sweets & slowly dropping the wrappers behind her as she went. I assumed that her mother did not realise this & so I picked the wrappers up & carried them over saying - 'I think you left these behind' expecting the child to geta telling off for littering. Not the case, I was told to keep my nose out. At this point I saw that one of the dogs did it's business in the middle of the path, the lady & child just ignored the mess & walked away from me.

Just back from a walk to the beach and back. As usual there was dog shit in a plastic bag left on the side of the path.....

Glad you mentioned the dog crap in bags. People not clearing up behind their dogs I can understand the thought process, even if it's totally wrong. However, after going to the lengths of putting the crap in a bag, not a pleasant job (I've had the miss-pleasure of doing this once for a friends dog.) it is then either tossed into a bush, where it hangs like a sacrifice to ward off evil spirits. Or it's left lying neatly by the side of the path for the Dog Shit Fairies to come and magic it away at night. I just can't get my head around why they may think it's okay to leave the bag and who they think is going to clear it up. (I wonder if other responsible dog owners collect the bags as they pass - I'm sure some must.)

I assume you were paraphrasing ScreamingTree (welcome to the forum by the way) when you you were told to keep your nose out. Round hear you'd have been told to Foxtrot Oscar. Did she attempt to justify the actions of the child?

I do think it's endemic of a society where it's always somebody else's responsibility. None of us perfect, or live perfect lives with no impact on the environment. I'm sure I've been inconsiderate to others (or at least perceived inconsiderate - it's all a mater of perspective) but littering is just such a non-brainer. It's not one of those grey issues. It's not a hardship not to do it.

The great Brian Clough used to say that "Good habits need to be first taught and then repeated over and over again". He was talking specifically about training obviously but the principle is sound. Children who drop litter will most likely not have been taught to do otherwise; adults likewise, it's a practice that's not confined just to the younger generation.

It's not just confined to hills and paths either; some of the assorted piles of debris people leave behind in other public places - trains, football grounds, even the indoor arena at the NIA - just beggars belief.

Mark, we too were baffled by the mentality which goes to the trouble of clearing it up into a bag, and then leaving the gurrid mess hanging in a bush. But one day we were lucky (?) enough to see the operation in action. The dog owner clears the mess up because there are other people about and it's not nice to leave dog shit on the ground, but not really wanting to be carrying dog shit around, as soon as he/she is unobserved (or think they are) they toss it into the undergrowth where it inevitably catches on a branch and hangs on display for all to see.

You have to remember that everybody's a special case. So & so's got a walking stick so can't manage a bag of shit, So & so's got a new car so doesn't want to carry it in there, So & so's left it on the side of the path to pick up on the return leg, but somehow forgets it, Whats-his-name is calling in at Tesco on the way home and doesn't want to mix it up with his weekly shop, Ooj-a-ma-flip is giving somebody a lift, etc etc

I will add that only a few dog owners behave this way, and they're giving the whole dog owning population a bad name. A well trained dog is a delight, and a well trained owner even better.

John

I assumed that her mother did not realise this & so I picked the wrappers up & carried them over saying - 'I think you left these behind' expecting the child to geta telling off for littering. Not the case, I was told to keep my nose out.

Try the Yorkshire 3 peaks after a fell race, a trial of little (empty) bags of energy gel mark out the route or where the spectators congregate litter is crammed into the clints and grikes.

On the top of Ingleborough someone had left an empty 1.5 litre bottle of water(obviuously not a fell runner) I picked it up an carried it out, but the irony is that someone carried this 1.5kg wieght UP the hill but the >100g plastic bottle was somehow too much to carry down!

Yes litter gets me (especially teh dog bags in bushes etc) but if we all carry one piece of little out on our walk the hill will be (little) cleaner.

I bet someone 'cleaned up' the walking poles that I 'littered' at Ribblehead last year.

I went for a walk up the Cobbler yesterday and was quite revolted to see several places where toilet paper had been left behind by people taking the path by the Allt a' Bhalachain - including masses of it behind the Narnain boulders. I didn't hang around long enough to see what other 'waste' was lurking about.

It was fantastic to see loads of people out enjoying the Arrochar Alps - the Cobbler was very busy and there were also lots of people on Beinn Narnain. But what a shame that some individuals don't appreciate the importance of keeping the hills clean. Enough to ruin your day.

Incidentally, while taking the zigzags up from the Cobbler car park, I ended up in brief conversation with another walker. He was perfectly personable, but I was astonished when he told me he didn't have a map with him. He hadn't been up the Cobbler before. Yes, there are coloured waymarks at the start of the route, matching a map on display in the car park. And yes, the route up the Cobbler is very well trodden. But unless I knew a hill like the back of my hand, I'd feel vulnerable heading out without navigational equipment, especially on a day with such changeable weather. Ho hum.

It's amazing how much litter and worse is dumped (excuse the pun) in our countryside - a lot more than we see on an average walk as well.
I've noticed in the course of search and rescue exercises just how much of the stuff there is. We see more than usual I suppose because we're rooting in and out of heather and trees etc and because we are looking for things but it does show up just how much there is. It's soon clear too that sticking your hand in a bag, or even on a bag isn't a good idea!!!
I've also noticed the strange preponderance of Carling Black Labels cans over other drinks cans, soft or alcoholic. Either Carling's the drink of choice for lazy scruffy gits on the Moors or there's one VERY heavy drinker out there.

I remember seeing a time-served and apparently well respected walker on the Across Ross walk chuck his plastic drink cup down in the wilds of Strathconan with no apparent qualms about doing so - this from someone who clearly spent a lot of time in the hills. On the vague off chance that he reads this - SHAME ON YOU! (He probablt wouldn't have been aware he was doing it - or remember if he had been.

It might only be one cup but it's the same attitude.

I did read that our food is harmful to animals - I bet Foxes enjoys chicken sandwiches and what about field mice and cheese !