I've heard it said opportunity is born out of crisis. The BBC paints a grim picture of the economic climate in the UK and it doesn't make for pleasant news. There is however a silver lining. With the pound so weak against the euro I can now afford to buy some great gear :)

I've been looking at two possible purchases:

1) Haglofs Lim ultimate/OZ pullover: As far as I can see the OZ is the lightest shell available right now but I have two reservations. Firstly its paclite and secondly its claimed to function properly for high activity sports. PTC is apperently very positive. Since I use a wind shirt and resort to using a shell only when absolutely necessary. perhaps the OZ is fine. Furthermore I only get out a few weekends a year so durabilty isn't of prime importance. The ultimate looks great, and I like the idea of having the full zipper but does the functionality balance out against the extra weight (250g cf 175g).

2) PHD Minimus down jacket/pullover: at 360/380g much heavier than my Montbell down inner (200g) but provides, I guess, much better insulation (MB inner only has 60g of 800 fill down!). It also has a hood. PHD claim the minimus is good down to -5. If so it would give my layering system (and sleeping system) a real boost (with the montbel things start getting unpleasant at around zero).The minimus has done very well in Chris and Judy's reviews and I'd buy one right away but now theres the 900 fill Ultra. Dilema? Go for the Ultra pully with the same insulation but at a riduculous 230g or go for the minimus with dryshell. How necessary is dryshell?


Does anybody have experience of the above garments? If so I'd like to hear what you have to say.

If you had a few hundred Euros to spend in the UK, what would be your ideal UL shell and down jacket?

Have you no pity on us poor £ users?

I've got a minimus jacket and love it. It's not got dryshell but I work round that (don't wear it in rain). I managed to buy it in PHD's sale, so am very pleased with it for the £s.

However, if I was paying full price I would seriously look at Bob's Klattermusen
Liv Down Smock.

The minimus is through stitched whereas the Liv is box wall. I would think that almost certainly makes it warmer than the Minimus. Plus it has no heat leaking front zip, but then we're comparing apples to oranges.

Perhaps a better comparison is with the PHD Ultra pullover. Would the extra efficiency of the Liv outweigh the extra weight.

In the end we choose what appeals to us and just use numbers to justify our choice. And why not, we're in this for pleasure.

Dave, given your proposed usage the Haglofs Oz is fine. It's not as breathable as eVENT or Gore-Tex Pro Shell but it's better than most coated fabrics. If you were going to wear the garment frequently the Ultimate would be a better choice but if it'll spend most of its time in your pack I'd go for the Oz and save a bit of weight.

The Minimus is a fine down jacket - I've been using one for several years. However as JH says the Liv Down Smock looks excellent (I haven't tried it).

I've got the PHD Ultra vest and have been very impressed with it this winter. It's got by far the best warmth to weight ratio of anything I've ever worn, and feels lovely on. I got it with a Drishell outer and it has stood up well to some very damp days, including a couple when there was some nasty sleet.

Have you no pity on us poor £ users?

I do indeed. I am one! My house and UK savings are riding teh same downwards spiral as the rest. Just fortunate enough to have a salary in Euro at the moment. Might not be for long though. Steel isn't the best buisness to be in right now. Better get that gear ordered quick..


On that subject: I've ordered the Oz Pully. Seems to me that its low weight compensates any issues I might have with function. I have heavier jackets (XCR rather than pro shell or event) that I can call on if I think its necessary and the OZ gives me a downweighting opportunity if conditions permit.


Not come to a final conclusion on the down jacket yet. The Liv looks interesting indeed but after Guys coment I contacted PhD and they will do the Ultra pully with Drishell for an extra 15 quid. With Drishell the weight would be 255g. In my view thats a phenominally light jacket given its rating. Only 55g heavier than my Montbel inner!

Just about to hit the send button on an order for teh Ultra Pully with drishell. Before another 180 quid evaporates into the ether just one more question (I guess for Chris T since I know he's worn both garments in anger):

How do the Montbel inner and the PhD Minimus (assuming the Minimus is representative of the Ultra since both are rated the same by PHD) compare in terms of insulation?

I realise any answer is going to be subjective, we all experience cold differently, but any comparative numbers would be appreciated. Looking back at your most recent review of down jackets CT you said the Montbel was used on a Challenge crossing and was good down to around -1? That agrees pretty well with my experience (although my version has a zipper rather than press studs which I feel might make it more efficient than your example. I don't see a comparative operating temperature for the minimus.

I'm hoping the Ultra (Plus hhood) will give me an extra 5 degrees both in and out of the sleeping bag. Does that seem realistic?

In my experience the Minimus is much warmer than the Down Inner. I measured the loft of the Minimus at 6cms, that of the Down Inner at 3.5cms. The Minimus should also prove much more durable. I haven't used the Ultra Down Pullover but from the specs and my use of the Minimus I would expect it would give an extra 5 degrees.