Herald Scotland

Actually, reading the RSPB statement on energy it seems they are not just protecting their own reserves as they say they want to ensure that an energy revolution "happens in harmony with the natural and historic environment and respects sensitive landscapes" and "we must protect the environment from the blight of bad developments."

The RSPB has also just objected to the proposed Viking wind farm on Shetland.

In a Review of Renewables RSPB Scotland says "Scottish Renewables has estimated that if half of the Scottish Executive’s renewables target came from wind, this would require around 70 wind farms in Scotland. Even after avoiding environmentally and culturally sensitive areas (estimated to cover 60% of the Scottish land area) and MoD low-fly zones (26% of land area), there is ample opportunity to achieve this level of development."

Chris thanks for that I admit to not having read the details here as I was simply angry at Camerons statement. Now I have read it it makes me more angry at the statement Cameron made. Now armed with the actual facts it only makes Camerons statement worse.

"I certainly don't feel inclined to support a charity that promotes industrial scale windfarms. Indeed, anyone opposed to such industrialisation of our wild places should be considering resigning from organisations like the RSPB"

This does not seem to match

"they want to ensure that an energy revolution "happens in harmony with the natural and historic environment and respects sensitive landscapes" and "we must protect the environment from the blight of bad developments." The RSPB has also just objected to the proposed Viking wind farm on Shetland"

Cameron as I said a couple of days ago I think your stance was really uncalled for.

This comes down to a debate on where wind farms are and aren't acceptable. The RSPB have, of course, bird and bird habitat conservation as their primary aim. I wouldn't look to them to necessarily protect all wild land. Organisations for whom wild land is of primary importance are the Mountaineering Council of Scotland (named first because, as President, I have an interest!), John Muir Trust, National Trust for Scotland, Scottish Wild Land Group and Ramblers Scotland (whose abandonment by Ramblers London is a serious blow to wild land conservation as they have done much good work). It is to these organisations that I would look for action for the protection of the hills and that deserve support by those who want to protect wild land.

"Indeed, anyone opposed to such industrialisation of our wild places should be considering resigning from organisations like the RSPB." ..... Cameron

Careful or anybody not in agreement with your uncompromising viewpoint might have to stop subscribing to TGO :-)

"Maybe birds like flying into the blades of wind turbines?
Not to mention the destruction of habitat during and after the construction stage." ..... Mike

Is birkill at the generator and loss of habitat greater greater for windfarms (per megawatt) than it is for coal or gas power stations? That has to include getting the gas or coal out of the ground (open cast mining?), transporting it to the generator (a pipeline from Russia?), and the ongoing damage caused by the CO2 produced. I don't know, do you?

After four or five years of repeating it like a broken record I still say that given that the outcome is going to be a compromise, and it's better to get the compromise you want rather than a botched, piecemeal compromise. IMO the only rational way to deal with this problem is to create winfarm planning zones which make large areas windfarm free, and concentrate windfarms in other areas. Otherwise they'll be scattered randomly and much more visible. Yes you'll lose some areas, but you'll keep other areas. Cameron's no-compromise viewpoint is very noble but doomed to failure. Is it better to do what your heart tells you and fail, or is it better to scrape together the best result you can? There's a TGO sub hanging on the answer to that question ;-)

Sorry to have to keep repeating this, but after saying it for four or five years nobody has said anything that comes close to making me think otherwise. On the contrary.....

John

Hi JH.
It's not only wind power stations in wild places i'm against. I would have a problem with a coal, gas or nucleur power station on the top of any hill as well. Here in Dundee, the giant Michelin factory has built 2 huge wind turbines to power their plant. They are visable for miles, but their setting in an already industrialed site is as much part of the landscape as some of the old Victorian mill chimneys. No problem with that, as if they must be built, build them next to the consumer. Maybe a ring of them around the M25?


My understanding with wind power is that you must have back-up, so what is the point of them? How many wind power stations would be built without public subsidy?

John, planning is indeed the problem. There isn't any. All the organisations I've listed have called for a proper planning system that defines where wind farms can be built and where they can't but the government does not seem inclined to do this. A compromise is not being offered at present. The developers want the right to build wind farms wherever they choose and the government seems inclined to assist them.

"It's not only wind power stations in wild places i'm against. I would have a problem with a coal, gas or nucleur power station on the top of any hill as well."

Me too. But the RSPB can't be against all forms of electricity generation, that just isn't realistic.


"My understanding with wind power is that you must have back-up, so what is the point of them?"

To reduce CO2 emissions. The back up is only needed for short periods.


"How many wind power stations would be built without public subsidy?"


Not many. But the idea is to reduce CO2 emissions not build the generator that gives the greatest short term profit.


"There isn't any. All the organisations I've listed have called for a proper planning system that defines where wind farms can be built and where they can't but the government does not seem inclined to do this." ....... Chris

How many of the organisations you'v elisted have got such a plan? It's such an obvious idea that I'm sure a proposal would meet with public support (and then the gov would claim it was their idea :) ).

John

John , here's some links showing some of what conservation organisations are doing. You'll see that none of the organisations are against all wind farms and all are in favour of a low carbon economy.

Ramblers Scotland Energy Policy

Ramblers Scotland

Scottish Environment LINK

Scottish Wild Land Group

MCoS

MCoS consultation responses

I am really fed up with seeing wind farms being constructed in the Scottish Highlands. It is very rare nowadays when out on the mountains for views not to be spolit by these ugly monsters. Some of the worst offenders are the ones at the east end of Loch Cluanie and near Ben Wyvis just to mention a couple.

Personally I would rather have coal and neucular power stations built as long as they were away from the Scottish Highlands. I haven't done any study about the damage these power stations may cause but I am fed up with the pro wind farm brigade who think the have the right to pollute the Scottish Highland scenery with wind turbines and the ugly scars that their construction leave on the hillsides.

It is time to become anti windfarms or every mountain in the Scottish Highlands will soon have a view of a wind turbine.

Hillwalker I live within sight of the coal powered electricity generator at Longannet trust me if you had a choice of that and the constant running of trains and lorrys with coal to feed it then the masive dumping of ash on the banks of the river forth. The emmissions constantly pouring out of it. Or a few hundred windmills in its place I will go for windmills any day of the week.

Try coming up here and pitching a tent next to the site or take a walk up the Breas of Doune and pitch a tent there next to its wind farm which again is in my line of sight. I can bet my mortgage which one is better for you.

If it was a perfect world we would not need these but we are all guilty of using electricity so we have to compromise.