Cameron

Good question.

12 x 2Mw (say) turbines operating at 30% capacity factor.

12 (turbines)
x2 (Mw)
x1000 (convert from Mw to kw)
x0.3 (capacity factor)
x24 (hours/day)
x365 (days/year)

= 63,000,000 kwh per year.

So if they wanted to recoup that 2million in one year:

£2million spread over 63million kwh =

2/63

= 0.03 £/kwh = 3p per kwh

More likely they'll get it back over a period of years which is a bit more compicated to work out, but basically over ten years it'll be 0.3p per kwh and over 25 years 0.12p/kwh*. In fact the rising price of oil creates much bigger price rises in electricity than village halls do.

I have a sneaking suspicion that all sizeable developments have to make a contribution to the local authority. Maybe somebody else on the forum knows about this?


As for the politics of subsidies - I'll let you decide. Should what is ostensibly a CO2 reduction subsidy be providing, indirectly, Highland villages with village halls? I've given up trying to understand economics, but in the light of financial events during the past year it seems a reasonably good idea........

By the way, you say " these various windfarm subsidies", but as far as I know there is only one subsidy, the ROC subsidy.

John

* How much of this goes on your electricity bill is guesswork as renewable generated electricity is mostly sold to people who are willing to pay the extra, so the cost isn't spread evenly.

Where are most of the Turbines designed and manufactured? - According to Wikipedia its Denmark. Which country relies the most on Wind Energy? - Denmark. Which Danish politician was most influential in pushing the massive windfarms past Danish ministers - Connie Hedegaard. Which politician has just been elected as European Environment Minister? - You guessed it - Connie Hedegaard.

In green circles Connie Hedegaard enjoys rock star status - and is ranked in the top 100 most powerful people of our time. Our own Green party, if elected, would like to emulate the Danish success story by 2020. In their own words:-

"We propose a massive increase in the proportion of electricity that comes from renewable sources - raising wind energy production to the same level as Denmark by 2020 would alone create 200,000 jobs."

Irrespective of whether the Green Party are elected - its the Green Party that heavily influence our respective parliaments North and South of the border, carrying the public consensus in their wake. So it seems that Windfarms are certainly here to stay for better or worse.

Sean

I think we could make much much more of water power. In the 18th century, a lot was made from water power, specially in the Pennines, and the majority of this is now archeology.
We should be using our rivers and waterfalls a lot more. Its "free" and its clean and it only suffers the occasional drought. And its a lot prettier than wind farms, too....

I agree Mike. I did some work for a small scale hydro company a few years ago (making patterns for their turbines) and learned quite a bit about it. One of the problems with trying to emulate our ancestors is that they had few environmental concerns. Here on Exmoor the national park authority restored a hydro powered sawmill at Simonsbath on the headwaters of the River Barle. They rarely use it. I'm told that to generate enough power in normal conditions requires most of the river to be diverted into the leat, an unacceptable practice nowadays.

I feel this whole debate will go on and on until the great god necisity takes a hand at the moment we want but not need it when that flips around then decisions will be made and innovations and solutions found.

I also have no doubt when renewable becomes more profitable every energy company including the oil companies will be on it as let's face it oil will run out and they will need alternative ways to generate cash.

Good or bad this will all end up a footnote in history.

Sorry just felt a bit cynical this morning.

I can recommend a very good book called The Windfarm Scam, by John Etherington. It answers many of the questions posed in this thread.

But does it answer them correctly? Despite us discussing this topic for years your recent editorial on windfarms had several errors and contradictions.

John

You'll have to read the book to find out.

Ha! Good answer.

John

There was an interesting article in The Sunday Post yesterday. I read it at my parents, so don't have the actual details in front of me.
Apparently, the EU have recognised the value of peat bogs and upland moors as an important 'carbon sink', in the global warming issue. Grants will be available to landowners if they leave their land untouched. Landowners who bulldoze tracks over their land will lose out on the money.
Seeing as the whole wind powerstation lark is all about making money, here's hoping the grants the landowner can get for leaving his land untouched, are greater than the amount available for bulldozing tracks to the turbines.