Don't forget the banjo and a photo of your cousin Jester ; )

'Going Lightweight', has limits.The gear should stand up to what is asked of it but it is the limits you yourself place on it.Know thyself and what you can cope/put up with and know enough about what gear is avaliable to help you achieve solace ............in the outdoors.No way would I copy the crazy Mo fo with the celophane wraps LOL.

NO... lightweight can have no limits. Look at what someone like Ray Jardine is actually doing. He is not superhuman his physioöogy is the same as everyone elses. Mr Jardine simply chooses to spend his wilderness nights in an environment which requires a minimum of gear to keep him warm and dry, plus he seems to take his wife along who must be a great source of heat. Backpackers like Jardine seem to pass over the high mountain environment as quickly as possible and strive to walk high milleages which makes for shorter sections between re-supply. To emulate jardines techniques somewhere like the Scottish Highlands you would need to plan a route that had you bivouacking in sheltered valley sites such as forestry plantations, under bridges, under known shelter stones etc. Basically the approach seems to be to seek out the most clement micro climate available in your given area and to carry only the kit needed to overnight in those particular havens. Compared to the amount of kit needed to camp out on the Cairngorm plateau for instance any kit needed in such super sheltered sites would be much lighter. To take the matter to its logical extreme you would need to travel to environments where temperature and humidity ranges are similar to those in which our physiologies evolved. I guess that means backpacking accross the African plains with a pair of shorts and a sun hat chasing hyenas away from scavanged carcasses with the help of your hiking buddies.
Andy

So I guess there is a limit - 0kg of kit and clothing :-)

There is a serious point here which needs adressing. much of the stuff i come across in walking magazines re ultra lightweight overemphasises the gear at the expense of ignoring the more important environmental considerations. I carry an Akto tent because from the information available to me it is the lightest tent suitable for a wide range of environmental conditions and within certain limits allows me to camp more or less where i please during the seasons i am likely to use it. The ultra lightweight hiker takes the weight of this tent as their starting point and says this is not good enough 'i want a lighter shelter' then the line splits between those who realise that to be as comfortable in their lighter shelter as i am in my akto they had better be carefull where they spend the night and make allowances. the 'dumb ultra lightweight hiker' just ignores those considerations. I remember seeing a hiker using just a bivy bag at a very wet and midge infested campsite on Jura, he couldnt cook a meal read a book or cut his toenails etc, just had to wait till unconciousness blurred his misery. how can this be a sensible approach to the experience of wilderness areas when for an extra kilo of carried weight he could at least have made himself a decent meal.Rather than articles on how to set up a tarp in a gale those who wish to follow an ultra light approach would be better served with articles on where to camp with your ultra lightweight kit so you dont have to use it in harsh weather. For the majority of uk backpackers its not that much more inconvenient or expensive to get somewhere with suitable environmental conditions like the south of spain,france,greece, turkey wherever any where but over here.
andy

I don't understand your 'serious point' Andy.
Are you repeating that old chestnut that lightweight = suffering? Carrying heavy loads = suffering to me.
I fail to see the relevance of some silly bugger bivvying without migdie protection and weather protection?

You have answered that question yourself on a previous post Mike when you enquired if a particular tent was suitable for uk conditions. Just turn that question around and ask what conditions is this piece of kit suitable for,where can a find a backpacking location with those conditions and how do I get there. Ok those conditions may be found in certain environments or at certain times of the year in the uk or they may not, if not then look elsewhere. This information is just not presented to us by the outdoors media in a manner which we can make use of.
Andy

Any piece of kit will be suitable in the UK, if used correctly. I often use a bivvy bag, but if the weather is wet, or there are midges around, i'll take that into account when selecting what shelter to take.

You seem to be saying that you always need something like an Akto, just in case. Even using a traditional tent, i've been forced off the hill to a nearby bothy in the past.

I've seen folk backpacking with bomber full geo tents in summer, and that is simply overkill in my opinion.

"I carry an Akto tent because from the information available to me it is the lightest tent suitable for a wide range of environmental conditions and within certain limits allows me to camp more or less where i please during the seasons i am likely to use it."

I neither know what you do nor what conditions you do it in but this reads to me like you're probably carrying redundant weight around by having a single shelter that can deal with the worst you'll ever experience. The akto is an excellant tent but I can think of plenty of situations in which I would consider an akto overkill. That includes the UK.

"I remember seeing a hiker using just a bivy bag at a very wet and midge infested campsite on Jura, he couldnt cook a meal read a book or cut his toenails etc, just had to wait till unconciousness blurred his misery. how can this be a sensible approach to the experience of wilderness areas when for an extra kilo of carried weight he could at least have made himself a decent meal."

Your projecting your own limitations onto someone else. One mans misery is another mans bliss. I guess some folk on that campsite where looking at your akto and thinking you where out for some self-inflicted misery too. Yes when bivvying you're making a trade off but it's not just about the weight. For me personally its been central to some of my finest experiences: travelling light and sleeping out just can't be beaten. Books can be read and toenails can be clipped at home I don't need to waste time on that sort of thing when I'm out. To throw you're argument back at you how can staying on a midge infested campsite, reading a book in your tent be a sensible approach to the experience of wilderness areas?

"For the majority of uk backpackers its not that much more inconvenient or expensive to get somewhere with suitable environmental conditions like the south of spain,france,greece, turkey wherever any where but over here."

Most folk who talk like this have never propoerly considered let alone tried lightweight shelters. The vast majourity of lightweight backpackers on the other hand have spent much effort lugging arround and using trad two skin tents. That lightweight gear isn't suited to UK conditions full-stop is simple nonsense. Bivvies, tarps, tarptents, and trad two skin shelters all have their place.

These posts just go to show - each to his or her own! Isn't the main point that as long as you are not harming, or endangering, or spoiling the pleasure of others (or damaging the environment, although that is, of couse, impossible),and you are enjoying your trip out in the hills / wilderness, then do your own thing and do not worry or feel superior if others do it differently.

And most people will be carrying / wearing what others might call the "wrong" kit. We have to compromise, because few can afford the variety you would need in gear for all locations / conditions. And there would also be environmental considerations in buying too much stuff. So we buy stuff and make do. For example, I backpack with a Terra Nova Voyager Light. Heavier than I need on a calm summer's night in the Lakes when a bivvy bag would do; good for typical spring to autumn nights; lousy pitching in heavy rain (pitches inner first!) or for use in a storm or heavy snow when something more bomb proof might do. Similarly, my sleeping bag is a Rab Atlas 500 - I have been freezing in this, and too hot, and, probably mostly, just right - but I aint buying another lighter or heavier one!

David