Perhaps TGO could do something on the difficulties faced by younger walkers and climbers on gaining membership to clubs. In Scotland the law treats 16 & 17 year olds as children, and if they wish to join a club they must either be accompanied by a parent/ guardian, or the walk leader must have had a disclosure check carried out, and the clubs require a child protection policy.
At 16:
Old enough to leave school.
Old enough to get married.
Old enough to purchase cigarettes.
At 17:
Old enough to drive

But not old enough to join some hillwalking clubs!

It's possibly not the clubs fault, but where are younger walkers supposed to get advice and experience?

It's ironic isn't it. My advice to parents is to send the kids off to get on with it. As a 14 year old I used to go hillwalking and camping out in the Campsies just north of Glasgow. My folks thought we were staying at a youth hostel. We got into scrapes but coped - we learned to find our way around the hills with scraps of maps. But I guess by the time I was 14 I was fairly experienced in the outdoors for I have been playing outside since I was able to walk. As 8 and 9 years olds we were building rafts on the river and pretending to be Tom Sawyer or Huckleberry Finn. As 10 and 12 year olds we would set off for the day on our bikes. As a 14 year old a pal and I were members of a prominent athletics club and one of the old guys who ran the club took a great delight in rubbing us down with a towel after showers, just to make sure we were properly dry of course. We simply thought of him as an old pervert and used to laugh a lot about it. Nowadays he'd be locked up.
So, I guess what I'm coming to is that it's not the clubs at fault here, and it's maybe not even the government at fault - politicians simply react to the public. I blame parents. Release your kids, let them fly early, encourage them to get out of the house, dammit. Otherwise we are going to end up with a society of non-risk takers, a generation of young people who have always been wrapped in a cocoon of their parents making.
And if anyone thinks about posting to say that times have changed and we live in a more dangerous society I would point out that my early years were spent in '50's and '60's Glasgow. Hardly an Eden...

I agree with Cameron's advice and can certainly relate to his childhood memories. The rules regarding working with kids are ridiculous, and certainly don't help, however I don't think this is the biggest problem we face when it comes to getting tomorrows adults to appreciate their world.

The biggest danger by far is the technological revolution - now in full swing. The temptations of the offerings of computer games, social networking sites (like facebook), and an avalanche of texts means that kids who enjoy being away from all that - and outside! - are regarded as oddities and losers. So if you're going to follow Cameron's advice and "let them go" you'll have to do it pretty early on, before they get sucked into the "P C World" otherwise you might open the door, but have to watch Johny say "thanks Dad" and return to the excitement of the bedroom.

If I sound like an old fuddy duddy I'd argue that there's nothing wrong with Facebook, mobiles, PS3s etc - only the obsessive use of them to the exclusion of all else - whether that be walking or reading or playing down the park.

I'm extremely pessimistic about what todays screenagers are going to do with the world tomorrow (it's been bad enough with my generation) so if anyone feels the need to put me in my place: go ahead punk - make my day ;)

I too was lucky enough to grow up before the culture of fear took over. Growing up on a new housing estate on the outskirts of a city, the local hills and rivers were my playground. In the summer, i would be out as soon as the sun was up, and had to be dragged back indoors when it started to get dark.
I don't know if 'force' is the correct word, but i 'encouraged' my kids to get outside. At the time they often moaned about huddling in wet tents, or joining me on training nights at my athletic club. Now they look back with fondness on some of our hill adventures. They did the usual teenager thing of turning into idle monsters for a few years, but i believe that my early 'encouragement' in outdoors stuff paid dividends. Now they are young adults, they have gone back to taking part in sports themselves, and are always looking for an excuse to get out into the hills.
Getting kids interested at an early age is key, and we as a society seem to have lost our way.

Peer pressure is increasingly a problem though - if anyone has any thoughts on how to best overcome the fact that all their friends seemingly have WIs or hug some sort of mini games machine when they turn up to play, please post them here!

Ours have been walking and outdoors from day one (on top of Yewbarrow in snow showers in mid December, aged seven weeks!)but we do get worried that they'll start to succumb to some pressure. Having said that the signs are good - they are always asking when can we go to a new hostel, and at Easter they're looking forward to walking some of Hadrian's Wall.

The other thing that worries me (as someone who has no interest in satnav - because a map is like a good book) is that people, and young ones too, won't be able to read even basic maps in a few years time, and therefore may have even less interest in countryside or general topography. Parents of schoolfriends just seem to say "Oh I don't need instructions, just give me your postcode" - implying map reading or simple route finding is fast becoming redundant. Our children have at least taken great delight in learning about maps, leading the way on walks, and knowing their symbols at an early age. I think if you can link maps to landscape/history/wildlife and to the outdoors there's at least a good chance young ones will keep a healthy interest in such matters.

Personally I have a lot of faith in the up and coming generations. I think the IQ level is increasing at 0.3 points per annum isn't it? It's me I have a problem with!!

Are we all middle aged writing this thread? Have middle aged people always groaned about youngsters? "We lived in't cardboard box in't middle of motorway" sort of thing?

John

Thing is we are all different. Some people like the security and cameraderie of a club. Some like to learn from others experience. Telling them to go off and learn is all well and good, but it's not the answer in all cases.

That's a fair point Jester, but I can't think of an easy way round changing the laws that pander to the view that every other adult is a paedophile.
At the moment the mob is ruling.

Have middle aged people always groaned about youngsters?

Yes. But I'm hearing more and more parents complain that their kids are no longer interested in anything but communicating with their mates. Texts and Facebook bring our kids' friends into the home 24/7, and while this is a great leap forward in many respects, it does mean that other experiences and family members get pushed aside and even rejected. No matter how middle aged I am, I can't see that this obsessive behaviour is good, but I am open minded enough to see the benefits.

I saw an interview with a university professor recently who said of the new intakes: the first thing they ask is what do they have to read, and how long will it take. Many students no longer have the desire to undertake in depth study, and this has developed over the last few years only.

Yes, I saw that interview too.

"But I'm hearing more and more parents complain that their kids are no longer interested in anything but ......"

you put:

"communicating with their mates"

but you might have put:

"watching TV", "driving cars", "smoking" or a million other mad things that we could be accused of.

My father and my older brother were/are journalists. My nephew became a media student and suffered years of criticism from them for never reading a book. Now he's moved into the industry and is doing far[/b] better than either of them did. (I've been equally critical of all three of them :-) ). Future generations can't deal with a changed world in the same way as we have.

John

Smoking and driving cars aren't all consuming, but I'd certainly agree with you about TV. In fact I liken the current addiction to communication with the easy entertainment that's brought into our homes via the TV. There's an off switch, but it seems that many find it easier to be entertained by third rate programming than use it. Like Facebook and texting it has its uses, but if you can't restrict its use, and live your life it could be just as damaging. What's worse about Facebook - and particularly texting is they're not easy to get away from, because you might miss some drama that's happening among your community of friends. Peer pressure pulls many back to check the screens again and again, and of course most of the time it's just mundane stuff going on. Something's got to give, and often I'm hearing that it's interests and family relations. With TV the only peer pressure that's applicable comes from those in the room with you, or perhaps certain popular shows that are the subject of discussion at school or work.

"Future generations can't deal with a changed world in the same way as we have"

Not sure I get this. Do you mean: Older generations can't deal with a changed world in the same way as younger?